Finishing My Degree
By Daniel Miessler on August 22nd, 2006: Tagged as Career | Certification | Information Security | University
Perhaps the reason I’m so into information security certifications is because I still haven’t finished my bachelors degree.
I have over 90 hours (from a “regular” school) and all I lack is some core, but despite my now excellent CV I still feel the pang of inadequacy due to not having finished my degree. So I’m considering once again doing something about it — sooner rather than later. I’ve always known I am going to finish before moving into management at around 40, but maybe I can do it earlier — online.
I’m considering University of Phoenix Online, which seems to be the premier option, but I still have some negative thoughts about the whole online thing. I wonder if others will feel the same way, e.g. hiring managers, peers, etc., or if it ultimately won’t matter. At this point I almost think the BS degree is a “check the box” issue more than anything else. You either have one or you don’t.
The program I’m looking at actually seems pretty cool; it’s a bachelor of science in information security:
Bachelor of Science in Information Technology/Information System Security
So what are your thoughts on the matter. Do I ruin my reputation by having one of these degrees? Or is it a “just get one” scenario where all that matters is that it’s an accredited school?
Any input would be appreciated…
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“REAL” security professionals might look down at you and turn up their noses cause you got “all that there BOOK learnin’”
On the real though, I never got mine, and I’ve been doing IT professionally for over 12 years and Security for over 7…I haven’t noticed the loss except one time when I got called in to interview at Merck, at the time, they DID NOT hire anyone who did not have a Bachelors, hence no job. Aside from that, never been an issue with any of my employers
Comment by Michael S Black — 8/22/2006 @ 8:32 am
I’ve had a professional IT job for almost 3 years now… and I won’t graduate until this December.
Though I must say that if you do plan on finishing your degree you should get one in a field you know. Either IT or ISS — don’t just get a degree because you’re have more classes toward that degree than any other. I’d also shy away from UoP and the like. Those schools always seemed shady to me. Then again, I’m not an employer so I guess I have little room to talk.
Comment by Tim — 8/22/2006 @ 11:21 am
I’m not an employer either, but I too have an uneasy feeling about UoP. It may be entirely unjustified, but at this point in history, I believe that a degree from a “real” school (apologies to UoP) seems to me to have more value.
I’m not sure how necessary it is for you. The toughest job to get without a degree is the FIRST one. Once you build a reputation, perhaps the reputation speaks more loudly than a degree would. On the other hand, the lack of a degree is an excuse for a potential employer to sort your application into the “no” pile. You don’t need to give them any excuse for that.
To sum up:
• I believe that a degree (even an online one!) from a physical campus is more valuable (at this time) than a degree from an entirely online school.
• A reputation in a field CAN be a large plus to a potential employer.
• A degree will open additional doors (or will ensure that they are not automatically closed to you).
Furthermore, if you ever decided to switch fields, a degree will still be a valuable credential. Experience may be less so.
Comment by Carl M — 8/22/2006 @ 4:05 pm
Hey Daniel,
You apporached learning the right way. You KNOW what you are doing and are pursuing a degree to “check the box” and many employers are looking for that type of thing. There are a lot of Masters and Doctorate candidates out there that will have a degree but won’t change the default password on their linksys router at home… you get my point.
Best of luck.
Patrick
Comment by Patrick — 8/22/2006 @ 9:30 pm
I’ve also heard that UofP gets a bad rep. A DBA I work with chose not to go with their master’s program, instead choosing Boston University. I think an accredited school is the way to go, especially online. I’m considering a .NET programming certificate through the University of Illinois, if I can convince my boss to reimburse. :o) Oh, and I think, in this day, having an online degree isn’t looked down upon. Just my two cents.
Comment by Marisol — 8/23/2006 @ 12:03 am
To be fair, UoP is an accredited school, but I still have this gut feeling that it just isn’t the same (at this point in history).
Comment by Carl — 8/23/2006 @ 7:48 am
I worked in the IT field for 15 years before finishing my degree. I’ve dealt with this question as the interviewee and the interviewer.
Until you have about 3 years experience in the field, employers tend to look hard at:
Do you have a degree? What school is it from? What specific classes did you take? What was your GPA, honors, clubs?
After that, when you have a resume listing real projects where you had real responsibilities and made real contributions, it turns into:
Do you have a degree from an accredited school, so I can check this box and the HR department doesn’t hassle me for hiring you?
My consulting clients have never asked about a degree. They call me because of referrals from previous clients, based on what I can do for them.
There are some unaccredited degrees that are cheap, easy, and wothless. UofP is in a different category, and you can tell the difference because the commitment of time and money required are similar to traditional university program.
Comment by Mark — 8/23/2006 @ 12:48 pm
Something I was unaware of until recently is that UoP does have physical campuses…there’s one in Atlanta, in fact.
As for online vs. physical, physical is undoubtedly better. Online schools, no matter how great their content, will almost always suffer one stigma: the ease by which the degree is obtained. The perception is, and will remain for some time, that online schools are all about making it “easier” to get your degree. That’s why taking online classes from a physical school (e.g., GSW) is better than online classes from UoP. GSW doesn’t suffer the stigma that it’s an easy way to get a degree (um, well…).
Getting a degree from UoP, in your case, is an almost blatant acknowledgement that you’re getting it “just to have.” I think employers will recognize this, and I think having UoP as your alma mater could put you at as much risk of not getting a job as if you had no degree at all. If employers look for you degree on your resume to prove you’re a hard worker, and UoP promotes itself as a convenient way to get a degree, then UoP could total a negative.
Comment by Jason Powell — 8/23/2006 @ 1:15 pm
Well, that’s the thing — even a “regular” degree isn’t considered to be hard anymore. There’s no guarantee that someone with one will have anything valuable to an employer anymore. This is the reason experience and certification have begun to trump the degree in most circumstances.
On another note, most don’t know that UoP not only has the same accreditation that Harvard does, but it’s also used extensively by the corporate world — specifically the Fortune 500.
Many of these top corporations have direct billing agreements with UoP (including my previous employer) because their employees get their college paid for by their employer. So if IBM and Microsoft and these types of companies are using UoP, on a direct billing basis, then it seems pretty logical that those same companies wouldn’t scoff at an applicant with a degree from there.
I think the stigma on UoP is mostly among the masses rather than at the hiring manager/HR level.
Comment by Daniel Miessler — 8/23/2006 @ 2:24 pm
Don’t “shy away” from UoP because of some implied stigma. They are a great school. I’m in the same boat as you and found your blog just tonight. Pure coincidence.
I’m in my 16th class at the UoP, got about five more before I graduate. They will take your transfer credits and make it as easy as possible for you to get moving. The classes are NOT easy (but may be some easy ones based on your experience). For me the HTML/WEB programming class is a breeze, but the Java (not Javascript) class was a mind-bender. Your results may vary.
Just like at any school, you will have teachers u hate, and plain inept staff. And you might complain about the cost… $1550 per class or so. But you know what? I think it’s worth it. As to the comments about UoP being a “real” university… the accreditiation is real and is recognized around the world. Check here for some neato history: http://www.futuremagonline.com/archive/2006/Spring/1.html
HOWEVER… looking at the bigger picture (and you have to write an essay about this in UoP) IS IT BETTER to have certs or a bachelors??? That’s the big question. Obviously, the answer is both, but that’s not a valid answer here. Heehehe.
Comment by Elixir — 8/24/2006 @ 2:32 am