The Pronunciation Of Linux
By Daniel Miessler on March 26th, 2005: Tagged as Culture | Linux
Before anyone points out that the meaning of language is most important, and that discussing minor points such as pronunciation is pointless, let me assure you that I mostly agree. I am, howeveer, having a friendly debate on this issue with a particular Check Point SE and my previously strong position seems quite a bit less tenable at this point.
Allow me to put forth some arguments on both sides so that you may decide which you like better and/or add your own:
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Arguments for Lih-nix:
This is the side that I’ve always been on, and I’ve always been rubbed the wrong way when someone called it Lye-nix. My main reason for thinking Linux was authoritative is the mp3 file that’s available online that features Linus saying: “My name is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux, Linux.”
This file is meant to end the debate, and for me it did. You see, he pronounces it, Leen-oox, just like his name which he pronounces, Leen-oos.
So, here’s my argument: if he pronounces Linux as Leen-oox, then theres a damn good chance that he’ll pronounce the word “finish” as “feen-oosh” or “feen-ish” — either way, it’s feen. So if he pronounces a short “i” as “ee”, then it makes sense that “Linux” and “Finish” would end up being pronounced the same.
This makes perfect sense to me.
Arguments for Lye-nix:
So, I thought I had a solid case until I came upon this wiley Check Point engineer who busted out with the following argument:
We need to look at the origin of the word itself and take into account the country it came from when bastardizing it into English. Linus is Finnish and based his new OS on an OS called “Minix”. Being Finnish, he probably pronounced this “Mee-noox”. Well, what was the English pronunciation? Probably “Mye-nix”, but I need help from the old-schoolers on that one.
So, if Linux is based on Minix, and Minix was pronounced “Mye-nix” originally, why would “Linux”, which is nothing more than a “Linus” adapted “Minux” not be correctly pronounced “Lye-nix”?
This was his follow-up point, but I found it stronger than his English bastardization point which included our pronunciation of the Linus character on Peanuts — which was “Lye-nis”. His point was that when you bastardize this type of word from Finnish to English, the “i” comes across as long, not short. He couldn’t give any more examples of this, however, and the Peanuts thing just wasn’t enough for me. As a result, I’m more interested in the Minix angle.
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Ultimately I’d probably still call the project “Lih-nix” because I think it’s more accepted and I don’t think Linus cares one way or another. I do want to know if I’m wrong about what’s “correct”, however. Why? Well, I’m a geek and I like discussing such things. I also take pride in presenting the most battle-tested, logical arguments when debating. As it stands, however, I currently have no such argument on this matter since such a solid counter to my position has been put forth.
So, thoughts? (other than that I need professional help with my OC problem)
Edit: The issue has been solved.
from safarla.com: The various ways to pronounce Linux are shown below using English letters in a phonetic way, and using the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA). You will need a font containing IPA characters for the display to be correct. Some versions of Internet Explorer have problems displaying IPA characters, even when an appropriate font is installed (other browsers, such as Mozilla, don’t have this problem). Many websites explain the sounds of the IPA, but the best explanations are found in the Handbook Of The International Phonetic Association: There are three main ways to pronounce ‘Linux’: /ˈlɪːnɤks/ (’leenooks’) This is Linus Torvalds’ original pronunciation, based on the pronunciation of his name in Swedish. It’s rarely used by those who speak English as a first language, as it doesn’t seem very ‘natural’ to them. There is an audio file (in MP3 format) of Linus Torvalds saying ‘Linux’. /ˈlɪnʌks/ (’linnuks’) This is now Linus Torvalds’ preferred pronunciation, as he considers /ɪ/ closer to the original /ɪː/ than /aɪ/. It also follows the pronunciation of the English word ‘linen’. There is an audio file (in wav format) of me pronouncing ‘Linux’ this way. /ˈlaɪnʌks/ (’lynuks’) The other major alternative is based on the pronunciation of the English version of ‘Linus’. It also happens to be the version I use. There is an audio file (in wav format) of me saying ‘Linux’.
In addition to this evidence, it’s also been pointed out to me that a documentary called OS Revolution, Linus himself goes on record describing the various ways to say his name and such, but then goes on to explicitly say,
“… but Linux is always Linux”
…with Linux pronounced “linnux”.
So, I think that about settles it (not that it mattered all that much anyway). I just like having my ducks in a row when discussing things of this nature.
Let me know if you have comments…
There’s a simple rule in English which goes something like: a vowel says its name if it’s followed by a consonant, followed by another vowel. If you pronounce Linus “lie-nus”, why wouldn’t you pronounce Linux “lie-nux”? All that’s changed is one letter.
I also feel strongly that “Adobe” should be pronounced the same way as “abode”, as the only difference is the consonants have been swapped around. However people persist in saying “Adobie”.
Comment by Pedant — 3/28/2005 @ 8:30 pm
“If you pronounce Linus “lie-nus”, why wouldn’t you pronounce Linux “lie-nux”?”
Because Linus himself said that’s not the correct way to say it. ;)
-Daniel
Comment by daniel — 3/28/2005 @ 8:35 pm
Heh … I was talking English pronunciation, not Finnish, dammit!
Comment by Pedant — 3/28/2005 @ 8:42 pm
Right, but he specifically says in the documentary Revolution OS that “there’s only one way to say Linux”, and that’s with a short “i” sound, as in “Linen”.
He specifically states this, in his own words. In other words, he’s saying Lye-nux is not right, nor is Lee-nux.
It’s his word; he created it. If he says it’s Lynnuks (with a short “i” sound) then I’m going to go with that.
-Daniel
Comment by daniel — 3/28/2005 @ 8:53 pm
I stand corrected. I guess that means we pronounce Linus that way too.
Comment by Pedant — 3/28/2005 @ 10:50 pm
“I guess that means we pronounce Linus that way too.”
Yeah, I think you’re right about that. That’s how I’m going to say it anyway. I think “technically” we’re supposed to say “Lee-noose”, like he does, but I doubt he minds if we match it to the way he wants Linux pronounced.
-Daniel
Comment by daniel — 3/28/2005 @ 11:03 pm
I didn’t know Checkpoint knew about linux… Don’t seem to be the case when you look at their VPN client, and you see that the only version available is an rpm for RedHat 7.2… Been asking them for a couple years for a vpn client for linux, they never did it. So I switched all I could to Cisco, which maintain linux vpn clients :) Wake up Checkpoint.
Comment by chap — 3/29/2005 @ 2:43 am
Linus is from a Swedish-speaking part of Finland, so his first language is Swedish, albeit with a Finnish accent (which among other things makes “uh” sound more like “oo”). He would pronounce Finland very much the same as it is pronounced in English. If he were to speak Finnish, he would pronounce it Suomi, as this is the Finnish name for the country. This is all quite irrelevant, but my OC does not allow such things to go uncorrected.
Now, for a bit more relevance, consider that most of the words containing “-inu-” and pronounced “-eynu-” in English are from Latin: sinus, minus, and the name Linus. Incidentally, these are all pronounced “-eenu-” in Swedish.
So does that mean that “eynu” or “eenu” is correct in English? I suppose it depends on whether or not you want to continue the long-standing English practise of bastardising proper names from other languages, but that’s not my call to make.
Personally, I say leenuhks in Swedish and linnuhks in English. I pronounce my middle name as leenuhs in Swedish and lienuhs in English. Perhaps I should pronounce it “hypocrite”.
Comment by alex — 3/29/2005 @ 4:13 am
Thanks for the “sinus” and “minus” examples Alex. That’s the point I was attempting to make earlier (obviously less successfully).
Meanwhile, the Adobe/abode issue remains unresolved …
Comment by Pedant — 3/29/2005 @ 8:39 am
“Personally, I say leenuhks in Swedish and linnuhks in English. I pronounce my middle name as leenuhs in Swedish and lienuhs in English. Perhaps I should pronounce it “hypocrite”.”
Nah, I don’t think so. Since communication is the main goal when using language, it’s quite alright (in my book anyway) for someone to make slight adjustments to pronunciation for their audience.
-Daniel
Comment by daniel — 3/29/2005 @ 9:34 am
You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe…
Let’s just call the whole thing off.
Comment by nova20 — 3/29/2005 @ 10:30 pm
thanks for clearing this up, I’ve always said linnux, then heard someone bust out the one that rhymes with Linus (and Lucy). As far as Adobe… Dude, that’s a WORD already. They didn’t make that one up. Look it up in any respectable dictionary. My freaking house is made out of it.
Comment by sincere — 6/17/2005 @ 11:43 pm
Yeah, dude…”adobe” is from the Spanish adobar which means “TO PLASTER” and is traceable through Arabic tauf to an Egyptian hieroglyph meaning “brick”. The word may be pronounced ah-doh-bee or uh-doh-bee.
Comment by Lazy Bastard — 7/14/2005 @ 9:58 pm
“Yeah, dude…”adobe” is from the Spanish adobar which means “TO PLASTER” and is traceable through Arabic tauf to an Egyptian hieroglyph meaning “brick”. The word may be pronounced ah-doh-bee or uh-doh-bee.”
Lazy Bastard, did you mean that Adobe was pronounced ah-doh-bee in arabic pronounciation of english?
In english, the “e” sound is silent like in “probe”. Unless there is a y or i in the word, the name is pronounced with no y or i sounds. If this is the case, the English pronounciatiaton of Adobe is in fact, “Ah-dobe”, not “ah-doh-bee” unless you’re talking arabic context.
Comment by jeff — 4/24/2006 @ 9:34 am
I lived in Denmark for ten years where we all pronounced it as “ah-dobe”. I found it very strange when moving back to the States, it was pointed out to me that I was pronouncing it incorrectly.
Well, why do people always say “to-ki-yo” when it’s phonetically spelled and pronounced “Tokyo”?
As for names, in Denmark they pronounce mine “kaahn” like Genghis Khan - or James Caan. Daniel’s right - you make adjustments for your audience.
So, really, who originally invented Adobe and is the author, like Linux, adamant that it be pronounced in this arabic/spanish/egyptian way??
Comment by Karen — 8/4/2006 @ 10:51 am
Here it is: “Adobe Systems (NASDAQ: ADBE) (LSE: ABS) is an American computer software company headquartered in San Jose, California, United States that was founded in December 1982 by John Warnock and Charles Geschke. They founded Adobe after leaving Xerox PARC in order to further develop and commercialize the PostScript page description language. Adobe played a significant role in sparking the desktop publishing revolution when Apple Computer licensed PostScript for use in the LaserWriter printer product line in 1985. The company name Adobe comes from the Adobe Creek, which ran behind the house of one of the company’s founders.
Adobe acquired its former competitor, Macromedia, in December 2005.”
Comment by Karen — 8/4/2006 @ 11:06 am
The word adobe is pronounced &-’dO-bE and is three syllables. A listening button is provided at Merriam-Webster — online, for those who are too hard-nosed to look in a printed dictionary and would rather argue about how many teeth are in a horse’s mouth.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/adobe
You can also try calling Adobe customer service and asking them, instead of arguing here. (800) 833-6687
I called McAfee for that reason, after hearing someone say mc-AFF-ee too many times.
As for Linux, I simply disagree with almost every argument here in favor of lie-nucks. Definitely the pronunciation given by Linus himself is best, with a very slight modification from the Scandinavian accent. I can’t understand why there was ever a large number of people who thought otherwise.
I’m not a linguist, but I do have an English degree and above-average pronunciation, and lie-nucks drives me crazy. I suspect the Anglo pronunciation of Linus isn’t any more correct anyway (maybe a Greek-speaker could clear it up better).
Linus: from the Greek, meaning flax(en)
Linus is taken from the refrain ai-linon, or “woe is me”
From the Greek name Λινος (Linos) lee’-nos
Pronunciation button available here — #3044 (although my speaker connection doesn’t seem to work at the moment)
http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/browse.cgi?letter=l&sn=61&pn=4
Comment by Virginia — 8/11/2006 @ 12:59 am
I don’t care how even Linus himself says he wants it pronounced. What actually comes out of his mouth, using “California English based phonetics”, is “LEE-nooks”!
Comment by deadcrow — 10/20/2006 @ 6:43 pm
The Linus/Linux point is not important because the English alphabet is not phonetic. Just like son, and Don. The o has a completely different sound in each word. In English there is a great amount of play we are allowed to do with our vowels. The change in most English accents deals primarily with the pronunciation of vowels. Even when hearing Linus talk we naturally convert the “Leenooks” to be “Lehnicks” because we naturally translate the accent in our mind. In short, comparing the pronunciation of one word with another doesn’t prove anything. Proper nouns can work however we decide we want them to work.
Comment by maxo — 12/5/2006 @ 10:53 am
Here is Linus Torvalds clearing things up for you. ” Linux is alway Linux” - L.T. http://tinyurl.com/ybrh4s
Comment by cantormath — 12/6/2006 @ 11:25 pm